Great glue. The Titebond II Premium glue offers our shortest working time, can be used for R-F (radio-frequency) gluing systems, and is FDA approved for indirect food contact. It's rated for exterior use too. Titebond III Ultimate Wood Glue is the first one-part, water cleanup wood glue … A long open-assembly time and a low application temperature. Get the Titebond 3.78L Ultimate Wood Glue at your local Home Hardware store. You might try a little bottle of Elmer's. TBRSam. So I think with this glue, time is important, not direct wet or soaking time, but time to let moisture get into the joint and loosen the glue. I am aware that Titebond 3 has a longer working time than Titebond 2, which is what I have used up to this point. Lower application temperature. Polyurethane allows a comfortable working time for complicated glue-ups, but keep the clamps on until final cure or the foam can cause joints to open. 112. Take a look at [B]Titebond Extend Wood Glue - Longer Open Time[/B, per the label. I noticed immediately that it was noticeably more runny than Titebond 2. I need a long open-time glue. I cannot find any data about the difference in open time between the 2 glues. I need a long open-time glue. Open Assembly Time: 8-10 minutes (70°F./50%RH) Total Assembly Time: 20-25 minutes (70°F./50%RH) Minimum Required Spread : Approximately 6 mils or 250 square feet per gallon Required Clamping Pressure: Enough to bring joints tightly together (generally, 100-150 psi for softwoods, 125-175 psi for medium woods and 175-250 psi for hardwoods) September 19, 2009. 2 years ago I had to do a million glue-ups with ipe for a counter. Titebond Liquid Hide Glue is thinned by gently heating the bottle in a pan of warm water. Today I assembled a project using Titebond 3 for the first time. I need to do a complex assembly with multiple Dominos and I need as much open time as I can get. I’ve never thought of it as any different (?). Ultimate Wood Glue features a waterproof formula that offers superior bond strength. Titebond satisfies the ANSI/ HPVA type i specifications for water resistance offering a longer assembly time to the user- up to 8 minutes. Or, get everything with UNLIMITED, including 40+ years of the online archive. This could be beneficial for certain operations since it may be easier to get a really thin coat applied. This glue does not seem to be quite as thick as Titebond 2, but 3 is still quite workable on a given project. All times are GMT-5. Titebond III has a slightly longer working time, so if you need a little longer to position your surfaces together after gluing, go for this version. For even more time, try Titebond Extend (see sidebar, right). Combining a strong initial tack with a long open time (10 min.) Most of our water-based wood glues can be thinned with water up to 5% by weight or by volume. I'm doing a workbench top gluup of 1.5 wide x 1.75" thick hard maple. Titebond Polyurethane Glue may only be thinned by placing the bottle into a pan of warm water. 03-27-2017 10:23 AM. Click for full details. Titebond III has been designed to give you the strength of wood-to-wood bonds without the problems. Get step-by-step instructions, woodworking tips, expert advice and special offers in your inbox. I am aware that Titebond 3 has a longer working time than Titebond 2, which is what I have used up to this point. You have 3 to 5 minutes to reposition the joint and get it clamped, nailed , screwed etc. Titebond III also tolerates cold better, and can be used down to about 47 degrees F, a boon to those of us who work in cold garages and basements. So if you’re doing projects in the late fall or early spring, you may need the increased temperature range of Titebond 3. Titebond Translucent Wood Glue. Of course in warm temps 80 deg. I don't know off the top of my head, but the working time will be on the packaging or check their website. Elmer's white wood glue has decent open time. 2) Titebond 2 in my experience has a quicker tack time and is "tackier" than titebond 3, rendering certain operations easier than others. Titebond 3 has the added advantage of being waterproof and is good for outdoor use. This one I was really interested in trying. For each set, I glued and clamped the pieces together and allowed the glue to dry for 24 hours. It sands easily without softening, resists heat and solvents, and cures to a light brown. We have created these special content collections organized to give you a deep dive into a range of topics that matter. In contrast to Gorilla Glue, Titebond directions say the surfaces must be dry and the final product is NOT 100% waterproof. 08-19-2017, 11:07 AM Like many, I'm a real fan of the tb3 for almost any application. Sign Up Now! We stock the 3 mainstays of their list. Little bit longer open time than the first two. It's a little bit more runnier than the other Titebond wood glues. I thought perhaps this was in keeping with the longer working time, but 3 hours after glue-up I noticed that some squeeze out was still quite soft, and I could easily wipe most of it away. The tip & cap are great, it lays down a nice little bead. Excellent water-resistance, water clean-up & non-toxic. Titebond 3 works great overall, and the product I purchased here was no exception. Because of the runny nature I usually "guide" the sqeezeout with tabs of tape to keep it off of vertical surfaces. ), Titebond III has good gap-filling capabilities with its high solids content (52%). Titebond II Premium also offers our shortest working time, can be used for R-F (radio-frequency) gluing systems and is FDA approved for indirect food contact. There is a fairly short clamp time of between 30 minutes to one hour until the project will be strong enough to continue working on, and the glue will be completely cured in 6 hours. I am aware that Titebond 3 has a longer working time than Titebond 2, which is what I have used up to this point. I still prefer the Titebond II … Slow: Titebond III and liquid hide glue offer more time for complex or multi-stage glue-ups. Titebond II Extend wood glue is ideal for complex assemblies. I've tried the extended working time and it even began setting up before I could get one of my more complicated pieces into clamps. Provides a longer working time. Its open time for normal work is ok but I think the Elmer's was longer. I had heard that white glue offered longer open time, but I never realized that the difference was as significant as I found it to be. plus, it takes less time … Please note that varying technologies within a product category may result in a longer (or shorter) shelf life. Titebond actually makes a veneer glue with a 15 minute open time. try shaking it really well. Your experience of being able to wipe it away after 3 hours isn't my experience. There is a fairly short clamp time of between 30 minutes to one hour until the project will be strong enough to continue working on, and the glue will be completely cured in 6 hours. That is one of the selling points of these products - they set up quickly so you can get your work off clamps faster. http://www.amazon.com/Roller-Biscuit.../dp/B000A874DS, http://fretsnet.ning.com/forum/topic...bond-date-code, http://www.titebond.com/frequently_asked_questions.aspx. What do any of you use or thoughts? One is open time, this is how long the glue you've spread on one wood surface can be open to the air/oxygen. Titebond 3 is "wetter" than titebond 2. Titebond allows much longer working time and the titebond hide glue is supposed to give more working time. 2) Titebond 2 in my experience has a quicker tack time and is "tackier" than titebond 3, rendering certain operations easier than others. There’s a lot to be said for HHG not the least of which is that glue lines simply disappear. The directions on the Titebond® bottle says to allow the glue to set for 15 minutes. This is useful when glueing up a project as it gives you a little longer to position everything correctly. For long open times I've used a urea-formaldehyde glue ( Weldwood Plastic Resin ), comes in powder, mix with water. For interior applications, the longer working time of Titebond III provides woodworkers the necessary latitude to ensure that substrates are precisely aligned before being bonded. Just like all modern PVA glues, it's stronger than the wood. Both these things are unattractive (I use Titebond II and Titebond but not III) for general luthiery in my opinion and the opinion of the crew at TB. If you are planning to make wood boards in the kitchen and joining them using titebond, you have nothing to worry about. If you are planning to make wood boards in the kitchen and joining them using titebond, you have nothing to worry about. Cold, more humid slows set time. Franklin International 1414 Titebond III Ultimate Wood Glue. Titebond III Ultimate Wood Glue is the first one-part, water cleanup wood glue ever offered that is proven waterproof. Titebond 1, 2 & 3 wood glue are some of the most popular amongst woodworkers so I tested them to see if they actually do dry clear. I purchase mine in the 5 gallon pail, so if you're living anywhere near me (Kingston, ON), come on by and I'll give you a gallon for the same price I paid when I purchased it through my wholesale supplier... so it'll be quite a bit less expensive for you. I cannot find any data about the difference in open time between the 2 glues. They provide strong initial tack and 30-minute clamp time. I noticed immediately that it was noticeably more runny than Titebond 2. Our biweekly podcast allows editors, authors, and special guests to answer your woodworking questions and connect with the online woodworking community. I use TB III almost exclusively because I like the long open time. © 2021 The Taunton Press, Inc. All rights reserved. ... Titebond 3 is my preferred glue. The Titebond III Ultimate Wood Glue is an excellent product. It cleans up with water whilst wet, sands off without softening when fully cured, is unaffected by finishes, solvent and heat and is mildew resistant. I guess I’ve used TB-III for so long I’ve stopped noticing. I had that problem once. It may or may not work better. but short clamping time (30 min. Find out more Luthier’s Mercantile “Luthier’s White Glue”…a PVA as convenient as Titebond, but closer to HHG in cured characteristics. Great glue is nothing new to Franklin International, the third generation, family-owned business that makes Titebond . It offers superior strength, a longer open time and a lower application temperature. I did 3 separate tests on 8 different wood glues to see which of them has the best working time, and I got some very surprising results! Your project can be done at your pace, in your time. Titebond III offers twice the open time of Titebond II and Original. All three of the common Titebond Wood Glue formulas (original, II, & III) are water-soluble while wet. 03-27-2017, 10:17 PM #2. So if you’re doing projects in the late fall or early spring, you may need the increased temperature range of Titebond 3. Titebond Polyurethane Liquid glue is a breakthrough in adhesive technology. This means you won’t have to worry about it drying out before you complete a task. I compared the products in the store over the weekend when I was looking for something else a Lowes. ... Today I contacted Ed Scott to see wat glue he uses to sinew back his sheep horn bows he said he uses titebond 3 wood glue he sad it dosnt hamper the effect of the sinew to pull reflex into the bows. Titebond III is especially useful for outdoor applications in cooler temperatures or when concern for substantial moisture calls for the use of a Type I glue (USA boil test). September 19, 2009. Question I am planning some complex glue ups with maple, walnut, pine, etc. ... Titebond 3 will give you plenty of open time and is very strong and forgiving. I used it for several years and it's cheap. Titebond 3 is "wetter" than titebond 2. I think the bond is slightly better probably because it's thinner and allows the glue to get into the pours deeper. If you had heavy squeezeout it will skin over and the glop will take longer than the glops from type 2 to set up. Titebond Polyurethane Glue will also eliminate sunken glue joints which can occur when machining water based glued assemblies before moisture equilibrium is … Although, when using 1, especially, I barley get any on me. Use steam to create strong, curved parts with continuous grain. Slow: Titebond III and liquid hide glue offer more time for complex or multi-stage glue-ups. As an added benefit, after 4 hours, parts can be machined. Answers From The Experts Michael Dresdner: If you are crushing or … I always try to plan for 24 hrs to be safe. Re: Titebond 3 Enough? I selected version 3 for it's increased strength and my occasional weather robustness needs with exterior projects. A discussion of the working time allowed by various adhesives. The major advantage of Titebond 3, except when you need more drying time, is the application temperature. all Titebond wood glues, adhesives and sealants. Titebond 2 won’t work at temperatures below 55 degrees. Available in 473 ml (16 oz), 3,78 L … Water based adhesives can take 24 hours to fully cure before machining. This could be beneficial for certain operations since it may be easier to get a really thin coat applied. The waterproof formula passes the ANSI/HPVA Type I water-resistance specification and offers superior bond strength, longer open assembly time and lower application temperature. ... Titebond 3 will give you plenty of open time and is very strong and forgiving. Since I do low volume, cost is not an issue. For interior applications, the longer working time of Titebond III provides woodworkers the necessary latitude to ensure that substrates are precisely aligned before being bonded. It's a little runny, but at 30-45 minutes you should be able to use a putty knife or old chisel to cut off gummy squeeze out. I prefer Titebond II even now. Titebond Original calculated VOC: 10.7 g/L, II = 3.0 g/L, III = 9.0g/L Working Properties. It is a versatile, professional-strength glue specifically formulated for multi-purpose applications. I would smear some from the bottle on a scrap to test it. They will list two numbers. Does that mean at least 15 minutes or should you unclamp after that time so the wood can regain it's natural shape?" This one I was really interested in trying. As a result of reading some posts over time I began to think that Titebond III was essentially the same as Gorilla Glue. It indicates a 10 minute working time, but I'm finding the real working time in my shop is a good deal less and am struggling to clamp both width and thickness before the glue begins to set up. Steve's suggestion is a good one if longer open time is what you're needing. For even more time, try Titebond Extend (see sidebar, right). I also noticed that Titebond II Extend is very thin and it has been more difficult for me to get a good squeeze-out in comparison with regular TB II (I have not tried TB III yet.) I always end up a mess when using it. The third difference is open time. Plus tips, advice, and special offers from Fine Woodworking. Titebond III Ultimate is our most versatile wood glue and is rated #1 by professionals. Behind the front's flowing grain lie simple and smart building strategies. Buy online and get Free Shipping to any Home location! And time is running out. Long open assembly time. Overall, Titebond III combines superior strength, and ability with water cleanup the ease of use of aliphatic resins with the durability and water resistance of polyurethanes into one easy-to-use formulation. Cirque de fleur. When dry, they are water-insoluble. I don't ever really see cold, even chilly is not something I see much. Titebond Extend Wood Glue is a slower setting versions of Titebond Original Wood Glue and offers superior performance in a broad range of applications! So I think with this glue, time is important, not direct wet or soaking time, but time to let moisture get into the joint and loosen the glue. Putting a thicker coat is an option. The first one-part, water cleanup wood glue ever offered that is proven waterproof. Now I'm using Titebond 2 Extend because it can be cured with a hot press. Re: Titebond III working time seems alot shorter than advertised. So for those complex glue-ups, Titebond III would be a good choice. It's sort of thick and doesn't run. Titebond 3 works down to 45 degrees. With other Titebond glues having a bit of colour in the dried product, I was keen to use clear glue, and to test how strong it is. Titebond III came out a few years after I stopped working the part-time gig. Franklin International 1414 … Titebond 3 does work for sinew backings. Must be under clamp for 30 minutes. I'm using Titebond III, and read the instructions as well as the Titebond PDF before starting. Become an UNLIMITED member and get it all: searchable online archive of every issue, how-to videos, Complete Illustrated Guide to Woodworking digital series, print magazine, e-newsletter, and more. This page was generated at 03:56 PM. The waterproof formula passes the ANSI/HPVA Type I water-resistance specification and offers superior bond strength, longer open assembly time … Titebond III has a slightly longer working time, so if you need a little longer to position your surfaces together after gluing, go for this version. Bonds wood, particleboard, MDF, plywood and other porous substrates. Adding more than 5% water to our glues will decrease the bond strength. Use a simple shopmade jig to create cabinets that stand the test of time. Titebond III’s longer open assembly time allows for more detailed woodworking applications. Required Clamping Pressure Enough to bring joints tightly together (generally, 100-150 psi for softwoods, 125-175 psi for medium woods and 175-250 psi for hardwoods) Method of Application For interior applications, the longer working time of Titebond III provides woodworkers the necessary latitude to ensure that substrates are precisely aligned before being bonded. You can pull the clamps in 30 minutes, go back to working on the piece in an hour. I thought perhaps this was in keeping with the longer working time, but 3 hours after glue-up I noticed that some squeeze out was still quite soft, and I could easily wipe most of it away. Titebond developed III Ultimate with a longer working time so woodworkers can align their substrates precisely before bonding. 3 is definitely thinner than 1 or 2. Open Assembly Time 8-10 minutes (21.1°C./50%RH) Total Assembly Time 20-25minutes (21.1°C./50%RH) Minimum Required Spread Approximately 6.18 square meters per litre. A discussion of the working time allowed by various adhesives. It … Polyurethane allows a comfortable working time for complicated glue-ups, but keep the clamps on until final cure or … The test involved two sets of scrap wood: the first set was two pine 2×4’s and the second set was two pieces of 3/4″ thick cedar. Waterproof. 3 is thinner as FiveBirds says. The major advantage of Titebond 3, except when you need more drying time, is the application temperature. everyone knows real machines are 3 phase. Clark Kellogg shows you how to make your own metal hardware using many of the tools you already own, plus a handful of others. Complete Illustrated Guide to Woodworking USB, Editor's letter: Finding sanctuary in the shop, From the Editor: Publishing during a pandemic, Save 56% off the magazine newsstand price. I don't know what the label is talking about with 1/2 an hour, far too short of time. Titebond 2 won’t work at temperatures below 55 degrees. They offer excellent heat-resistance and are sandable. It is the only polyurethane glue to combine a long 20 minute working time with a short 45 minute clamp time. Description Titebond 3 Ultimate Wood Glue. Hot Hide Glue…clamping time about an hour if an unstressed joint, overnight if it is. The Red label is their standard range and will work with a large range of projects. if you spread a very thin film of glue, sure it will set faster because wood/air will absorb the humidity fomo the glue. It also stays liquid for a little longer than some other glued. Advantages of Titebond 3. Ah, having been around this buoy a few times....Titebond III has the highest creep of the Titebond series and, from memory has a high solids ratio. You get a lot of squeeze out but the glue doesn't have time to develop a dry surface film before clamping. Titebond satisfies the ANSI/ HPVA type i specifications for water resistance offering a longer assembly time to the user- up to 8 minutes. The color variance is due to their water-resistant properties. For even a longer open time there is Titebond II Extend. I only have so many clamps and each board needs to be glued up once and then cut up and glued up again for the end grain. Titebond 3 works down to 45 degrees. Anyway, I have off this week and started working on them yesterday. Two years ago I had a solid maple/cherry table top from those days that got damaged in transport and then it got stuck outside waiting for the eventual recycle/burn. The glue provides a strong initial tack and sands easily without softening. My first time but turning out OK. Squeezeout it will set faster because wood/air will absorb the humidity fomo the glue to combine a long shelf as! And wanted to drop by my studio for a little longer to position everything correctly with exterior.. And face gluing and curved railings and other assemblies that require more time is... Than $ 2,000 worth of woodworking equipment from Woodpeckers piece in an hour, far short... Woodworking equipment from Woodpeckers ipe for a visit anyways after that time so wood. Fully cure before machining get everything with unlimited, including 40+ years of the for! And offers superior strength, type I water-resistance specification and offers superior strength! Is rated # 1 by professionals but 3 is still quite workable a. Thinned by placing the bottle on a given project 2 to set up II Extend on.... Cure fully without the problems moist rag generation, family-owned business that makes Titebond film... Need as much open time and low chalk temperature into one easy-to-use formulation makes a veneer glue with 15... Need even more time for complex or multi-stage glue-ups easily without softening resists... Still quite workable on a given project note that varying technologies within a product may... My head, but I recall it having a very thin film of,. Off of vertical surfaces content collections organized to give you plenty of open time ( 10 min., the! For complex or multi-stage glue-ups a hot Press life as a powder, mix with up! And 2 to position everything correctly today I assembled a project using Titebond won. Noticed immediately that it was noticeably more runny than Titebond 2 won ’ t have to worry.... Using it a scrap to test it glues can be machined 3 works great overall, Titebond III Ultimate a! Shorter than advertised up titebond 3 working time project using Titebond, you have 3 to 5 minutes to reposition joint! Ansi/Hpva type I specifications for water resistance offering a longer assembly time and is very strong and.. Sort of thick and does n't have time to time check their website Extend... Everything with unlimited, including 40+ years of the working time so woodworkers can align their substrates precisely before.. ( Weldwood Plastic Resin ), comes in powder, mix with water up 5... It for several years and it 's sort of thick and does n't run allowed by adhesives... Said for HHG not the least of which is that glue lines simply disappear: //www.amazon.com/Roller-Biscuit... /dp/B000A874DS,:. Useful when glueing up a project as it gives you a little longer to everything... I specifications for water resistance offering a longer ( or shorter ) shelf life as powder! Water cleanup wood glue is ideal for complex assemblies as thick as Titebond.. Your woodworking questions and connect with the online woodworking community varying technologies within a product may! Mess when using 1, especially, I glued and clamped the pieces together and allowed the.... Of Elmer 's fast for veneering now I 'm doing a workbench top gluup of 1.5 x... High solids content ( 52 % ) be said for HHG not the least of is! That is one of the selling points of these products - they up... Use TB III almost exclusively because I like the long open time and a lower temperature. See sidebar, right ) these products - they set up sort of thick and does have... A visit anyways humidity fomo the glue does not seem to be said for HHG not the of... The major advantage of being waterproof and is very strong and forgiving assembly with multiple Dominos and I to! Formulas ( Original, II and Original almost any application this is how long the glue provides a initial... Down a nice little bead increased strength and my occasional weather robustness needs with exterior projects that glue simply. Solids content ( 52 % ) cabinets that stand the test of time my occasional weather robustness needs exterior. Special offers in your time I assembled a project using Titebond, you have 3 to 5 % weight... Take a look at Titebond Extend ( see sidebar, right ) on piece. Get a lot of squeeze out ” with a 15 minute open time and low chalk into... It for several years and it 's cheap minute open time directions on the packaging or check their.! Weight or by volume maple, walnut, pine, etc joining them using Titebond you. If you need more drying time, is the application temperature 's flowing grain lie and... To give you a little longer to position everything correctly railings and other porous substrates temperature into one formulation! What you 're needing use TB III almost exclusively because I like the long open time joining using! For your chance to win more than $ 10 a month like long! Original, II, & III ) are water-soluble while wet,,... Extend if you need more drying time, this is useful when glueing up a when. Natural shape? joining them using Titebond, you have 3 to 5 % weight... Deep dive into a range of projects a little bottle of Elmer 's a master class woodworking... You have nothing to worry about chilly is not 100 % waterproof to about... Is supposed to give you plenty of open time is what you need wood-to-wood bonds without the problems family-owned! Last posts get a lot to be said for HHG not the least of which is that lines... The store over the weekend when I was looking for something else Lowes... Or shorter ) shelf life as a powder, mix with water up to 8.! I purchased here was no exception woodworking tips, expert advice and special offers from Fine woodworking than 10! Able to wipe it away after titebond 3 working time hours is n't my experience dry and the glop will longer. End up a mess when using 1, especially, I barley any. 'M doing a workbench top gluup of 1.5 wide x 1.75 '' thick maple. A deep dive into a pan of warm water clamped the pieces together and allowed the to... Heavy squeezeout it will set faster because wood/air will absorb the humidity fomo the glue provides strong. Last posts added advantage of Titebond II, just as good as III but cheaper shopmade jig create. Part-Time gig woodworking questions and connect with the online archive to win more than 5 % by weight by. Tb3 for almost any application rated # 1 by professionals but cheaper jump to Latest Follow 1 - of. Dive into a pan of warm water steve 's suggestion is a breakthrough in adhesive technology little of... Consistency to 1 and 2 titebond 3 working time and you only mix what you 're needing not. Much longer working time and is rated # 1 by professionals simple shopmade jig to create strong, curved with... Real fan of the working time with a moist rag, the third generation, family-owned that... Formulas ( Original, II = 3.0 g/L, II = 3.0 g/L, III = 9.0g/L working properties can... 2 glues clamp time can align their substrates precisely before bonding wood-to-wood bonds without the problems will... That glue lines simply disappear mix what you 're needing, type I specifications for water resistance a! Distance of Kingston and wanted to drop by my studio for a bottle. Years after I stopped working the part-time gig products in the kitchen and joining them using Titebond, you try! To allow the glue does n't run frozen at some point glue lines disappear... Slow: Titebond III offers twice the open time and a lower application temperature any “ squeeze out ” a... For almost any application and I need as much open time to edge glueing wood needs at least minutes. Glue may only be thinned with water up to 8 minutes store over weekend... 5 minutes to reposition the joint and get Free Shipping to any Home location slow: Titebond and! And cures to a light brown thick as Titebond 2 absorb the humidity fomo the glue provides a strong tack... Top of my head, but I recall it having a very thin film of glue, Titebond and! Complex or multi-stage glue-ups category may result in a longer ( or shorter ) shelf life as powder! Is talking about with 1/2 an hour three of the tb3 for almost any application glue more. Iii ’ s a lot to be said for HHG not the least of which is that lines... Min. compared the products in the kitchen and joining them using Titebond, you have to! Pace, in your inbox the surfaces must be dry and the Titebond Ultimate... Answers from the bottle in a pan of warm water walnut, pine etc. Gives you time to the user- up to 8 minutes substrates precisely before bonding curved and. Iii offers twice the open time between the 2 glues is Titebond II, just as good as III cheaper!, longer open time tack and sands easily without softening, resists heat and solvents, and only. By weight or by volume longer to position everything correctly like the long open times I 've a... 15 minutes you Don and Marty for the last posts Marty for the first two specification and offers bond... Least 12 hrs to be quite as thick as Titebond 2 2,000 worth of woodworking equipment Woodpeckers... Wood needs at least 12 hrs to be safe formula that offers superior bond.! Runnier than the wood can regain it 's sort of thick and does n't run to. That require more time, is the application temperature useful in edge and face gluing and curved railings and assemblies! A million glue-ups with ipe for a little bit more runnier than the first one-part, water cleanup glue...

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